Dan Graham -The Two-way Mirror

”I don’t like complicated methods or over-sophisticated tools. Maybe I merely want to criticise myself by moving on to new areas. I like hybrids, combinations of different areas. I started with the combination of a magazine and art. For the last 20 years I have focussed on art and architecture”, says U.S. artist Dan Graham.

How did you end up being an artist?

I never went to any art school; I became an artist through friends. They wanted a gallery of their own, and as I had no job at the time, I took up the opportunity. I became an artist because many artists were interested in literature and wanted to become writers, and so did I. Art in New York in the 1960s was about doing many things, dance, performance, and so on. When the gallery ran into financial difficulties, I had to go. I began taking photos with a very simple camera. They were displayed in a group exhibition, and the Arts Magazine asked to publish them. I made them the Homes for America series, a combination of images and text.

During your career, you have experimented with many forms of presentation. What are you doing at the moment?

My latest work is a hybrid of architecture and art, I prefer works that are close to architecture. But I don’t just want to design shells. Your Steven Holl is a typical example of an architect who makes surfaces. I’m much more interested in what people do and how they change space. My works deal with the process of reception, people inside and outside spaces, and what happens between these people. And how materials are social and psychological, not neutral.

What kind of architecture do you like?

I like Japanese architecture, especially Itsuko Hasegawa, who is a woman, and Shigeru Ban, who works with ecological themes. The great Norwegian architect Sverre Fehn is also among my favourites. I’ve only seen one of his works so far, but I’m studying his production.

How do you find Kiasma as an exhibition site?

I thought it would be much worse, but my works require a lot of natural light, and there is enough of it here. The Kröller-Müller museum in the Netherlands, the previous place where my works were on display, did not have enough light, the season was wrong.

Is there a theoretical point of departure in your works?

I’ve never liked theories, they are so academic. But I like placing things in philosophical or psychological models, which may or may not work. In the 1960s, for example, there was a lot of pop psychology, having a different psychological guru every month… Some of my works are based on these models. A critical attitude is more important than theory. I base many works on humour. Or attacking other artists, or parody. I made the Yin/Yang water pavilion as a parody of New Age, everything is becoming New Age.

Who are your artistic idols?

Dan Flavin was a great source of inspiration for me, and so was Roy Lichtenstein. I like conceptual art with anarchistic humour, which I also use in my works. Not serious academism, artificial academism, that’s the wrong kind of conceptual art. Eija-Liisa Ahtila is one of my favourite artists. As for the younger generation, I also like Tacita Dean, although her early works are more interesting than her more recent ones. My favourite artist is Rodney Graham, who is also a great singer.

Can you imagine being anything other than an artist?

Being an artist is not professional, it’s amateurism. I’d hate to be a professional architect, although many architects are self-taught like myself, Mies van der Rohe for example. I find it important that what I do is not preprogrammed. Many artists today graduate from art schools, ready and programmed to be professional artists. Their techniques may be excellent, but their ideas are academic and safe.

What kind of audience do you like?

In museums, I like teenagers who lie down and look at the works for a long time. And small children who have just learned the mirror effect. Of course, there is always the possibility that teenagers destroy my work, it’s happened sometimes. I’d probably do that myself if I were a teenager. In the late 1980s I designed a skateboarding pavilion, which was never implemented, but I understand you have skateboarders near here.

Rock music is important to you.

Nowadays it’s difficult for me to listen to it because of my hearing, but I used to be very involved in it. The members of Sonic Youth are friends of mine, they lived downstairs. My rock opera Wild On the Streets was based on a film of the same title, telling about a rock star who becomes president when the age of suffrage is lowered to 14. In the background there is the American slogan: don’t trust anyone over 30.

Could you use the Internet in your works?

I prefer the physical qualities of a magazine. Also because magazines are disposable.

Many of your works are designed for outdoors, what do you think of a museum as a place of display?

I find museums interesting as social meeting places, as romantic meeting places. You find a bookstore, a café, and places to sit down, but I also like the fact that there is a view outside the museum. I believe museums originated from Renaissance gardens. Cafés are good, you can have people both inside and outside. It’s part of the normal function of the museum to be a café and a meeting place.

Your works have been purchased for many private collections. Who do you think buys your works?

A few of my collectors turned out to be doctors. I think that has something to do with the fact that my parents were upper middle class, educated people. Moreover, doctors purchase art for educational purposes. Two psychiatrists from Marseille, for example, got interested in my two-way mirror for professional reasons. Some collectors concentrate on buying art by artists who make simplified work in order to become instantly famous. I don’t get along very well with that kind of collector.

This is your first visit to Finland, what are you planning to see?

I’d like to visit St Petersburg at least. My favourite thing about being an artist is perhaps travelling. As I’m interested in architecture, it was important to me to come to Finland and see Alvar Aalto’s architecture. I saw his dormitory in MIT in Cambridge near Boston, and it was just great. My sign in the Chinese horoscope is the horse, and horses like travelling. But there are also places I hate to go to. As an artist you also have to visit truly hideous cities you wouldn’t go to otherwise.

Piia Laita