Talking about theatre

The new museum will also be housing the Kiasma Theatre. Theatre producer Virve Sutinen discusses the expectations and opportunities inspired by the new facility.

You are facing the illuminated stage of the Kiasma Theatre with the auditorium behind you. It is the year 1999. What do you see?

- I see the miracle of a small stage: the stage, in fact the whole museum has found its place and the people have found the museum. The theatre provides the museum with other dimensions such as performing arts, film, video, performance; it also enables projects which require a stage and stagecraft.

- Having a theatre in a museum is hardly a self-evident fact. In this respect, the programme of the Ateneum Hall has been pathbreaking, since it has expanded the activities and audience of the museum. At the same time, the museum itself has answered the question, what should the museum of the future be like.

- At their best, the events on the illuminated stage form part of the contemporary discussion, the attempt to discuss, explain, and understand art and, through art, ourselves and others, the world in Finland and beyond. The theatre is a meeting place where people come to find sensations, sometimes amazing ones, works of art that will be discussed long after the exhibition. It also provides a splendid setting for national and international debates and seminars.

- The Kiasma Theatre cannot be a regular theatre, but the connecting thought in its repertoire has to be interdisciplinary art and dialogue. Its repertoire will naturally include modern and experimental art; at the same time, it can provide a stage and meaningful context for marginal performances and projects seeking a place for experimentation and discussion.

- I hope that a stage which rejects sensationalism and refuses to exploit the marginal by lifting it on to "the Central Stage of Art," can successfully create a personal and varied profile.

- Since so many works of modern art (broadly speaking all art) can be difficult, the Kiasma Theatre must purposefully raise discussion on topics related to the reception, production, and actual creation of art. In the future the Kiasma Theatre could blur the borders between creation and performance.

What would be the most important steps to achieve this vision?

- It is important to create a dialogic and creative atmosphere where there is tolerance and appreciation. The idea is not to create a production culture in which people first look for some sort of 'hype' and then find a suitable repertoire for it. The Kiasma Theatre does not aim at a harmonious and riskless production. It seems that art based on content is somehow homeless nowadays, whether it is video or dance.

- Overproduction irritates both the viewer and the artist. There is a strong pressure to create a production environment that sells and is easy to accept. This pressure can also be resisted, even though publicly supported art is always under the yoke of accountability.

To be bold, determined, original – isn't that what everybody wants? Or are you aiming at something completely different?

- Wrong. I think that the current trend is similarity. What is now conceived as bold and determined is bland entertainment often represented by an anorexic nude model as the new renaissance genius or the megastars of Hollywood.

- How can we measure the productivity of art, its significance and influence? A performance's influence lies in the fact that it will still be referred to after ten years, and in this sense its significance is all the more cumulative and unpredictable. The significance or reception of art can never be guaranteed in advance; this is only possible with mass entertainment, if even that. The traditional task of the museum has been to preserve good and valuable art. The path of the Kiasma Theatre winds its way somewhere between all these definitions.
How do you define popularity and success and your part in it?

- You can only define success if you can measure it. One of the greatest producers of our time, Russian impresario Serge Djagilev took the Russian Ballet to Paris in 1911. The performances were complete catastrophes ending up in actual riots. Today Vaslaw Nijinsky's Spring Sacrifice and Afternoon of the Faun of the same repertoire are considered the milestones of the modern western era and art. The Finnish National Ballet still performs the Spring Offer with great success.

- The value of art is defined in relation to time and place; when these two change, the value of a work of art or event may also change. This is what often happens with experimental or avantgarde art. Of course each event has its own goals, but, considering the whole, for me a successful repertoire is one which raises discussion, divides the audience, and is of high quality with regard to action and content. Deliberate provocation or absence of action can also be valuable.

- If I can in some way sense what is going on in our time, I think I have succeeded in my task. Why is it important right now just to stand still instead of pirouetting? Why is there just noise in the place of melody? When will words regain their significance? It is a question of culture and people. Why do we start to get disgusted by violence? Why is it important to view the stranger as yourself and yourself as a stranger?

Life is dangerous – what about this project? The limits of risks and madness?

- It is more dangerous to go to work by bike. The only thing we can risk in this project is money, of which we only have a little. Madness is a limitless resource that we should never underestimate.

The repertoire will gradually take shape; can we demand the same from the audience? Is it also a question of a learning process in this respect? Do you think the audience can become a good sounding board?

- I don't think we can demand anything from the audience. Instead, we can hope to make the audience more receptive through our repertoire and, in a way, encourage tolerance and patience. Sometimes art is difficult and takes a lot of concentration and dialogue with authors and artists. Nevertheless, we shouldn't take art too seriously. In spite of all the serious intentions, art can occasionally be utterly ridiculous!

- How will people find their ways to the new theatre? In today's cultural scene, art is growing more and more commercial and entertaining; the coolest thing are rock concerts and artistic beer drinking within their framework. Finding our own audience will certainly take years, which is quite normal. It will also take time to find our own place in the cultural life of Helsinki.

- Every place is formed by people. The only constraint is the feeling inside you that you cannot help coming. I hope our repertoire will create that feeling without tasteless drumming and overadvertising.

The centre of Helsinki will be full of cinemas. What is the response/ trouble/form of cooperation of the theatre in relation to other cultural offerings?

- The only thing that makes Helsinki a big city is its cultural life, which is really active. I believe that a variety of subaudiences will also develop in the future, and art production will more sensitively respond to the expectations and tastes of these subaudiences.

- In a city and country of this size, cooperation with other producers of art, festivals, and organisers is absolutely necessary. Although oversupply is a danger, the aim of the Kiasma Theatre is to actively introduce topics and questions beyond the budgets of institutions forced to struggle with commercial pressures. In this sense the risks are also related to the educational task of the museum: to try and comprehend art and make it comprehensible.

Questions: Jaana Hirvonen
Answers: Virve Sutinen